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September 05, 2006

Comments

moizza

I was discussing on another blog how you cannot separate means from ends,if you come in with the stated goal of implementing democracy (ulterior motive of having a puppet government)but the strategy is based on violent suppression resurgence is more likely than attrition.The Taliban military commander now says that 500 Afghans have registered to be used as suicide bombers. So much for decimating strength.

He has also threatened to shoot any journalist who overstates Taleban casualties.

Cris

Heres another question... Why dont u go there and save the fucking country? We can all babble abt this shit and obviously ask ourselves obvious questions while nobody does anything to change things...

So what the fuck, uve got a life to sort out mr moo and id suggest to stick to that...

Sorry am i too aggresive, well tough, get over it mate!

Patrick

Well #1 . I think that the big airbase is a staging area for troops going to other places with strange sounding names. Kind of like the home field for a sports team.
Now #2. From what I know about this. The Canadian troops were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Other words they were lost and in an area that they did not belong. As far as 2002, I have no idea what took place in that goat rope.
My thoughts are that if you have one plant field in one place you can handle the traffic in and out of that field much better. Kind of like a central opium store. You plant it , we burn it kind of thing.
Last #3. You have a good point and a real good date on leaving. When the other guys were there they were fighting most of the country. We seem only to be fighting half of it.Who knows, I sure don't.

King Of The Hill

The whole thing is an absolute mess, but unlike Iraq, this is, in my view, an exercise worth undertaking. The civilised world (eventually, after years of apathy) took a stand against vile Islamofascism in Afghanistan, and even though it took 9/11 to galvanise them, they at least knocked the Taliban off its monstrous perch. The fact that the operation seem to be completely screwed should not detract from the consequential (and I am under no illusion that this was intentional) spread of democracy and some semblance of civil freedom to some parts of a shattered country. One ray of light in a dark cell may not be much, but it's still a ray of light, and there is still hope. I only wish the west had the balls to square up to scumbag regimes ln Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Burma, Iran and Syria. I won't hold my breath...

e!

The US has finally taken my suggestion to heart... Kill them all, let god sort them out.

Eh, kidding... but i think for the most part the US war machine isn't doing anything other than rile up a few malcontents that would have been riled up over something else if it wasn't the "war on terror."

Stephen

Patrick - But surely if you have a "home field" then you secure it, not let the opposition camp right outside it?

When the "other guys" were there they were fighting the rural 3/4's of the country, whilst enjoying some popular support in the cities. Doesn't seem a whole loot different from whats happening now....

The Taleban of its monstrous perch? You mean the people who bought peace and security to the majority of Afghanistan and stopped all opium production in the areas that they controlled ? Yes, the Taleban were bad but were they worse than Ismail Khan, Dostum and the other warlords who replaced them?

And before we bang on about women's rights lets ask Moizza what % of girls attend and complete primary school in rural Pushtu areas of Pakistan? The problem with the Taleban, and therefore of eastern and southern Afghanistan is not one of religon or politics but one of culture and trying to impose western democratic norms, which are predominantly a result of cultural change over the past 300 years, is a waste of space.

moizza

Adopting western norms and culture on your own is one thing, having them imposed on you even if it is for your betterment is perverse. If support for Taliban is up now in parts of the country it is because of the same reason Balochis supported Bugti even if he was a cruel cruel overlord-because they would rather take their own guy damning them than having some outsider do it.

Stephen, literacy rate for females in NWFP is 26% which is only higher than that in Balochistan and as you can see our President is doing a wonderful job in that province. I feel like King sometimes, screw them all over, it will just be so much better if they’re not here but removing one person doesn’t remove the institutions and historically all outside interferences have pretty much screwed up already bleeding issues. When these forces leave and it is no doubt they will, (they’re sustaining daily casualties, the government can’t stand on its own feet,) who’s going to protect the cultural freedoms intervention brought in urban areas (in rural areas the carpet bombing has managed to take a lot of people and you don’t have to worry about welfare for the deceased so that’s all good)? Seriously, international would-be-goods should not come over and fuck it over so that domestic would-be-goods can come back into power once they leave having learnt to cover their weaknesses.

Jenny

The US does not want true democracy in the Middle East. When given the chance to vote, the people are just as likely to choose a theocracy. Democracy means allowing the people to have their own choice, it doesn't mean setting up mini-Americas (although one could argue the US is approaching border-line theocracy at this point - bah).

King Of The Hill

Stephen mate, without wishing to sound hysterical, Hitler built great motorways - it still doesn't compensate for 6 million gassed Jews. You can't seriously claim that this fanatical rabble of walking brain deaths, led by a handful of psychopathic Islamists was anything but murderous and wrong. We in the west, with our liberal democracies and huge arrauy of civil and personal freedoms HAVE to cut through the PC garbage and just say that these people are the enemy, and to hell with offending muslims.

moizza

I am offended and I think that was prime time King does George Bush but I like you too much so I will pulverize the next person who irritates me.

I must say I feel crushed under the burden of representation. *looks woebegone*

Jenny

King - you do sound hysterical, and you also sound like an ass.

Stephen

My point, young man, is twofold.

Firstly, the Taleban were bad. No doubt. Muderous? Yes, but not compared to their predecessors in Afghanistan ( many of those predeccessors are now back in power in Afghanistan).

Secondly, the "Taleban", despite adopting the nomenclature of fundamental Islam are not driven and dictated by a (perverted) interpretation of Islam. Instead they are a manifestation of hardcore Pusthu social norms. The Taleban were never under the control of foreign militants but set their own agenda. This agenda only began to co-incide with the arab militants after the rejection of the Taleban by the west as the legitimate government of Afghanistan in 1997.

The point is important in that if you wish to "defeat" the Taleban and yet you define them by religon rather than tribal norms then your efforts are being misdirected. You also alienate a great number of their co-religionists.

Fine, if you want to see the Taleban destroyed..go ahead. But know thine enemy before you attempt it.

Stephen

Moizza, have you been in Isb over the last couple of days?

moizza

Nope, was there two weeks ago but not recently. Am I missing out on something?

Stephen

Nope, just saw an Isb visitor in my stats and hoping its you rather than newbies...

moizza

Newbies from Islamabad. That does not sound promising.

Dawn

I get an islamabad that shows up every day on mine so maybe they came to you from me.

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